Gukesh shares his insights from his Norway Chess 2025 journey
Norway Chess 2025 has been one of the exciting tournaments this year. Whether it's the games or the moment of Magnus Carlsen banging the table after his defeat against the World Champion, the event caught attention for many reasons. After coming back from the tournament, Gukesh had a candid conversation with Sagar Shah and Amruta Mokal. He started the tournament with two unexpected losses. Yet, quickly bounced back to give his best! In this interview, Gukesh discussed his games, his fighting spirit, and, of course, the unforgettable viral incident. Check out the article to discover his perspective on these pivotal moments.
Setback to comeback!
If you followed Norway Chess 2025, you know it was a wild ride, especially for the World Champion, Gukesh Dommaraju. He started the tournament with two straight losses - first against Magnus Carlsen and then against Arjun Erigaisi. This kind of start can crush spirit and keep morale down for many players, but that's just not the case with Gukesh! He proved again that with his fighting spirit, he bounced back! He played incredible games and even secured a historic win against Magnus Carlsen. No wonder that had everyone talking! It was the game that led to the now-famous table-banging moment.
In an interview with Sagar Shah and Amruta Mokal, Gukesh shared his perspectives, thoughts on his games, his fighting spirit, and much more. Check out the transcript of the interview here:
Sagar Shah (SS): Gukesh, you are back from Norway in Chennai. How is Chennai?
Gukesh Dommaraju (GD): Chennai is always the best, but Norway was also quite nice.
SS: Yeah, what a tournament you have had, filled with so much excitement. If you had to sum up in like a couple of lines, how would you put it?
GD: I think it was unpredictable. I don't remember like in classical chess these days, when I had two draws and eight decisive games. Also, partly thanks to the time control. Because two hours straight, and then only 10 10-second additional increments after move 40. So basically, after 2.5-3 hours, it becomes rapid. That created all the excitement. And my performance, I think the quality of my games was probably not that great, but I was fighting well. I think it's a good sign that, even starting with two losses and not playing great chess throughout, I still managed to fight for the first. In a way, it's possible.
SS: It was exciting till the few minutes. Anything could have happened. We have to begin with this incredible moment that happened in the tournament. Every time I go to Instagram and scroll, I see just videos of this moment, not of the actual moment, but people recreating this moment in every single way. You know what I am talking about! It's insane what has happened. Like this has become a template for everyone to do something.
GD: Some memes are actually very fun. Like, there was a cat meme. The cat is on the table, and then the cat jumps. I was laughing at it for like 10 minutes.
SS: It's become like it can go anywhere. [Laughter] But maybe it's a good idea to just have a look at that. I myself was totally shocked when this happened. What were your feelings? Did you feel you were already winning at this point?
GD: I was just trying to calculate the course, and after 60.Nb2, I realised it's just winning. But it was such a quick shift from losing to draw to completely winning.
SS: I think you had to find a series of accurate moves.
Amruta Mokal (AM): And that moment (Magnus banging the table) for you also would be very shocking, right?
GD: My mind was just trying to process what happened in the game. I did not pay much attention to him banging the table. My heart rate was so high in those final moments. I don’t even know what I felt exactly. I was just happy to win the game.
SS: What did you feel after Magnus patted your back? I did not expect that to happen. Actually Magnus calmed himself down and actually pated.
AM: It was very sweet of him to do that.
GD: I was just happy that I won the game. I didn't realize much what else was happening. But even after losing such a game, to appreciate your opponent, it's quite nice.
SS: Also, another moment I loved where you were just standing and everyone started to applaud. You were still in shock. It's a very beautiful moment!
GD: Yeah. The position I had was probably like once in 100 times.
SS: It was very great, not from the chess perspective, but the fighting spirit perspective. Not giving up till the end and so on.
GD: The banging the table… it just attracts more viewers.
SS: Also, in the closing ceremony, you said your favorite moment was the game with Magnus, and Magnus also said his favorite moment was the same.
GD: People didn't realize. When I was asked the question, there were other people in that room, and immediately, many of them started banging the table and laughing. For everyone, that is one moment that clearly stands out from the score number.
SS: I think it will be remembered for many years to come.
AM: It’s a legendary moment!
SS: There is one more moment that I loved a lot - the fist bump with Gayu. There was so much joy on your face doing this. It felt like it was something you guys wanted to do. You wanted to win against Magnus.
GD: Yeah. We fist bump after every win. In this game, I had a bad start, and with this win, I came to 50%. So there was obviously a lot of relief and joy.
SS: It was a very beautiful moment. Let's go to just a couple of points of that game, because while the position looked utterly hopeless, did you feel like it was completely lost? Or, how was your mindset when this position arrived?
GD: I knew that it's completely lost, especially after 34. Bxe4 35. Kh2 Rd1. All my pieces are just tied down. But, one thing that kept my hope alive is the rook on a7, with a possibility of Ng5. Obviously, it's very primitive idea, but that was the only thing that I could really hope for. I think after 39. Rc2, if he goes Ne6 (stopping Ng5 and Rc6), probably I should just resign. But he played Kf6. He probably missed the 40. h4 idea. When the time scrambles come and king is running into some checks, especially with knights, it always gets tricky. Probably, after 45. Ke2, the position is holdable.
It was hard for me to believe that I actually have some chances to save this game. But in that moment, after coming back from such a lost position, you will be very happy to get any position, even if it is losing.
SS: For all the people watching this, what is the way in which one thinks, when he/she is losing? To actually keep fighting, one move at a time or is there something that you say to yourself?
GD: For me, usually out of desperation, I just keep finding moves that don't lose on the spot. There are some positions which are losing, but it's challenging for the opponent. So you actually put in effort, put challenges for your opponent. These kind of positions, its up to the opponent. It's not in your control. So you just keep making moves which don't lose right away. If your opponent is not like fully precise, then it gets from completely lost to losing, then it gets slightly worse.
SS: Very well said! You don't have to lose on the spot. Keep fighting.
AM: It's incredible, this whole thought process and strategy! Actually even a player like Magnus came down to a blunder that way.
GD: Also, when the end game started, he probably had a few minutes ahead of me. But he was trying to finish it off right away. When the position got tricky, he was already in time scramble. And in time scramble, anything can happen.
SS: Rf2 this time turned out to be a good move. [Laughter] It was very important, otherwise you are losing. It's the only move this time.
GD: Actually, I thought, “Am I winning? It can't be.” I just make kept making moves which just stops the pawn.
SS: Finding firstly 56. Nc5 was nice. But finding 57. Na4 was really important.
GD: At this point, I knew Nxd3 is just a draw. I didn’t know that Na4 was winning but I just thought that I can't play Nxd3.
AM: This is interesting! Because we were in the commentary thinking now white is winning. But we were also thinking that Gukesh might be also thinking that he is winning. But there is no time to think there.
GD: Shift was so sudden that I didn’t have time to realize that I am actually winning. But after like Nb2, probably I felt it.
SS: There was another game that we wanted to talk about which was your first win against Hikaru. Your first classical win in the tournament. You started off with two losses in the tournament. It must have been tough at this point, right?
GD: Yeah. Two losses to start with in a tournament like Norway Chess when there are no easy games basically. For example, in Wijk aan Zee, if you lose a game, there will be some games, not the big players, but some games where you can go all in and have good chances. But in a tournament like Norway Chess, everybody is just the top player. So every game is tough. And after being on minus two, it's very hard to come back to even 50%. So that was quite tough. But at some point, I just accepted it. I was just trying to make good moves. I think I played overall quite well against Hikaru. From the opening, I had a slight edge. I was quite happy with the a5 resource.
SS: Exactly. This was one of the moves that I thought was so good, because the knight is so solid on c5. a5 was very important.
GD: No, because you would think in general, right? Like b6 a7, you want to keep the pawns to attack the weakness. But actually, b6 is not really a weakness. a7 is the weakness. So to dislodge the knight and to get your knight to c6, that was the only like only route. I was quite happy with this move. I was just happy that I kept finding resources. I was managing my time well. After Rd8, he offered me a draw. He just thought probably it's an equal position but it just looks so unequal. After h4, he probably realized.
AM: This is brilliant! After first two losses, normally there is some kind of a fear. When there is a draw, it's slight edge and you kind of go for it. Most of the people will go for it, worrying about a loss and being at zero. This is a crazy mindset you have to make a comeback.
GD: Also, for me, -2 or -3 doesn't really matter. When I play a bad game, I want to win the next game. That’s the only way to make myself feel better.
SS: I think it's very simple for you. Even when someone asks you some questions like “This person said that”. You are like “Let the results do the talking.” You just play the game. You don't have to worry about what people say.
GD: For me, it's more like when some people who are close to me say something, then I will take it seriously. But when somebody who doesn't really mean anything for my career, if they say something, I don't really mind that. If my parents say something or Vishy Sir, for example, he says something, then I will take that.
SS: You have your own sort of circle of people whom you trust. Their opinion matters the most. Amazing! (Coming back to the game) So, were you shocked when he played Qd6? It was just a free pawn. We were thinking like what does Hikaru have in mind? But I think there was nothing.
GD: Yeah, I think it was the knight on c6 combined with the mating threats. It's simply that he will lose the a7 pawn at some point. I thought his best defense was to go Qb7. Then Qc4, Qb6. I think h5 was quite strong or Qf4. This was his best defense but I thought anyways there should be a way to win.
SS: Right. There was a game with Fabi that you played in Armageddon. You drew. You were losing in the classical game completely. But you found the move 14. Nd5. You defended it and then in the Armageddon, you played it very quickly. I thought it was a great move.
GD: It’s one of the things that White is hoping for in structure. Because there is a common trick - bishop is on f5 Nxd5. It's a very unpleasant move to face. Because you don't really want to spoil your structure with the f6. And it's very hard to defend the knight. I think Armageddon was just very smooth. I also was happy with 50. Rd6. It's not often that you get such a position against a player.
SS: He can cannot take because Qd8. It's just a mating attack.
GD: I was just thinking it would have been nice to make three queens because d7 is a passer. h5 is also a passer. (Laughs)
AM: But, generally there would be only 15 minutes in between Armageddon and was it tiring for you?
GD: It was 20 minutes and Gayu would be in the playing hall. So in between the games you would just discuss what to do about the openings. You would be checking something already when the classical is going to end in a draw. We just checked something briefly, then I just refreshed and went for the game. That's actually nice to have a clear result at the end of each day. One thing I love about Norway Chess is the format. I love that there is a result every day. And I think it's also nice that classical win has three points and Armageddon has just one and a half, classical should mean more. Since there is also a tie-break, you have a clear result for the spectators every day. Although the classical time control is very challenging, it created so many decisive results. So I think this format can be used in more tournaments.
SS: Very interesting! I think Norway Chess hasn’t hit upon this format in one edition. They tweaked it, they kept iterating it and finally they managed to hit the golden formula. It very cool.
AM: Sagar, you were telling me something very interesting about the number of decisive games which Gukesh had.
SS: Yeah, he has played the lowest number of games in the tournament - 12! Fabi played 13 only. But the rest have played 15, 16, 17 in that range. Also, one more thing about Norway that we all love is the free day. So many beautiful photos of yours.
GD: The last time when I played in 2023, it was the fashion designing, knitting stuff like that. This time, they took us time to a set kind of a cowboy set. We all had to dress up like cowboys. There were nine challenges like shooting, axe throwing, posing for pictures, riddles and all those stuff. So it was very very nice.
SS: The cowboy look suits you somehow. You look like a natural cowboy.
GD: Me and Ju Wenjun were teammates. It was funny because some of the games, like Ju Wenjun would score zero points and I would score some points. Some games, I would score zero points and she would score some points. So we had this nice balance.
SS: And also, you both are World Champions. That was very beautiful for the public to watch.
AM: By the way, last time when you were in that knitting competition, there was a partner, right? Everyone had a partner. Was yours Alireza at that point?
GD: Wesley. He won for the Spectators' choice. This was a lot of fun.
SS: The game with Wei Yi was not so fun, right? (laughs)
GD: It would have been even less fun if I had lost it, because I was losing. In this game, after 46. Rf8, I had Rc2, Bd3. I think time scrambles, it's not the worst thing that happens (smiles)
AM: Would you rate these as slightly offbeat or difficult kinds of mating patterns for the level of pressure and the time that you have on the board? Because so many players miss things in the end in time pressure.
GD: To be honest, this is not really a tough mating pattern. It's like a puzzle rush mating pattern. The thing is, even in a blitz game, there are already so many blunders that happens, but since this was classical, we had to shift so quickly from classical to rapid, suddenly the blitz it was so hard to mentally shift to the time scrambles. That’s why so many blunders happen. But in some games, I was managing to shift well, some games not so much. I think it was the same for everyone.
SS: I was very surprised to know and maybe if you could give a small explanation. I thought 22. Nf5 is the most natural move, but turns out that after you go Nf5, Bg3 Nxg3 makes your position worse.
GD: I completely miscalculated. But I think it's just that I am not getting b6 and e5 breaks. Considering the position, if I don't get these breaks, i’is a bit closed in nature. And the two knights with more space, like a3 b4 is planned, it's quite counterintuitive. Nf5 is such a nice square for the knight, and then you trade the bishop too. It feels like you will get e5 or b6, but none of it works. Also, the knight on e7, the c6 is such a nice square for the blockade of the c5 pawn. Also, it works against a3 b4. I think it was just a complete misjudgment.
SS: Yeah. But it was very natural and very instructive. Then we had this game with Arjun where he played the move 1. d6. How big of a surprise was it, the Pirk defense?
GD: It was kind of a surprise. But one thing with Arjun to expect is that there will be a surprise, though. It was also a must-win for him if he wanted to win the tournament. It was close to a must. So it was understandable that he played this. I just completely mixed up something like a castle. If I had also gone to castle after he castled, then Nxe4 Bxf7 Rxf7 Nxe4.
I had known this position from some other game that I was seeing. So, I was trying to get that. Then later I thought, if I castle, he might go c6 threatening with b5, and if I go a4, he will go d5, and then, exd5 cxd5 and he will have Bg4. He can get Nc6. It's still pleasant for White. But I thought 37. h3 was clever. Because I stopped Bg4.
SS: It turned out to be a very very dangerous position for you, but you somehow saved it. And not just saved it, you turned it around and you won it. It was your first-ever classical win with Arjun.
GD: I have had many unpleasant games against him. Also, the first game in Norway and the last game in Wijk aan Zee. Recently, I had two losses. So, this game meant a lot to me actually. I mean not just that beating Arjun, but also the first time that I was on a plus score against him. So, this was a special one. I was very happy with how I handled the time scramble. Even though there were a lot of mistakes, I never really let go of that control once I got the edge.
SS: You played the end game very well.
GD: I quickly realized that now I have chances for an advantage and play 32. Nd2. From this moment, I was very happy, even though it was with mistakes.
SS: There is this very famous saying that once someone is worse in a game for a long time, they are generally okay with a draw many times. There are very few players who can switch very quickly. I think that's a very important mentality to have.
GD: True. And only after Nd2, I realized that I can just play for a win.
AM: Amazing! This is good. Because while commentating, we felt like maybe you were thinking it's still equal. But you already understood. It's amazing!
SS: Gukesh, the next game against Hikaru was a very instructive game for me personally. My first instinct after 20. Nxg6+ was fxg6. But everyone was like, hxg6 is very necessary here. And fxg6 is a positional blunder. What's your overall feeling?
GD: I played 20. fxg6 a bit quickly and carelessly. Once he played this night fork, I was like, there is nothing really going to happen. Even though I spent some time to solve the position, I was not really going deep into the position, going into the details. But I should have just spent some time, made sure that things are all safe. In general, thinking in terms of hxg6, I was thinking about Rxb8 Rxb8 Bc4 Kg8. It looks pleasant for White, but it's just a draw. I didn’t realize that my king is just dead after he takes my bishop. After his bishop comes to c4, there is nothing that I can actually do. Initially, I thought the rook and bishop endgame should be a draw. I thought I could just trade the queens and it would be a draw, but then I realized that trading the queens would mean losing it.
SS: It's also very, very difficult end game.
GD: That was just one moment of carelessness, then I don't think I had any chance to win. It was very painful but also very interesting.
AM: fxg6 is something very natural. I think 100 out of 100 will play that. Only after learning something like this it is possible to shift.
GD: Once you think more in general terms, your king is just locked up, then it makes sense. But but hxg6, I kind of rejected it very superficially.
SS: And then one move which stands out for me as being a pure Gukesh move in this tournament is move 16. g5 against Wei Yi. I can tell you that it did not even cross my mind. I I was like, "No way. Can g5 be good? F4 is coming in to push the bishop back and so on." And I watched your interview and you said that after g5, you started feeling good about your position.
GD: Actually, instead of 17. Rae8, he should go Bf7, then h4 Ne4 Rg1 Qe8. Something like this, Gayu was telling me. This bishop I kind of underestimated. I thought that after he goes f4 Bd2, the knight on d4 is controlling some light squares. He has the e4 square. That's why I think he had to save the light square bishop. Gayu told me that it was worse for me at that moment. I was quite surprised. But it does make sense. Because after Bf7, the bishop comes to e4 or just blocks all the pawns. It's quite unpleasant.
SS: I didn't go so deep. I was just feeling like allowing f4 is not looking so good. But perhaps that's not the point. Because if you get his light square bishop and you put your bishop somehow there, you would anyway be doing well. So it was actually very concrete.
GD: Yeah. If there is no Bf7, I don't think this would be bad at all. Because once I trade the light square bishops, light squares are just too weak for Black. The bishop can always come to c3. In general, I don't think it was a bad positional decision. If the f5 square was not protected, maybe it would be, but with the knight on d4, there is always control over.
AM: Also, Bf7 meant something if black finds Qe8. But the Qe8 idea is slightly weird. It can be missed very easily.
GD: Qe8 is the only way. But Gayu told me this idea. Also other than that, I have some h5 g6 ideas. Maybe he can go c5 at some point. In general, the point was that he was able to block my kingside.
SS: After Nf5, this entire game, you made all the best moves. Rde1 Bc5 cxd5 cxd5 Re7 Nxd2 Bxh7+... And also, thanks to Wei Yi! Amruta told me that she will give me one week of solo vacation if Nd2 happens on board.
AM: I said Wei Yi will not Nd2 obviously. No way. No chance. And then finally it was going to be solo vacation. It's crazy! Sagar said I will be at home for one week, and I will have to go out somewhere.
SS: Solo vacation at home. I wanted to stay at home.
AM: So, I have to leave the house for a week because of you, Gukesh. (laughs)
GD: I made Wei Yi play Nd2 for you!
SS: Thank you! But yeah, I think you must have been very happy with this entire sequence.
GD: Yeah. I was playing very confidently throughout this entire sequence. Also, after he played 20. Kxh7 27. Rxd5 29. Qb3 ideas, everything felt very artistic.
SS: This was a very nice win. And then the last round, the very key moment, where you fought very hard, 47. f4. You were totally lost, but you somehow got the golden moment where you pushed and he took. I think there was no time to even think that after Bxc7, Qxc7 (instead of d1 = Q) could be a draw?
GD: I had only 13 seconds. I wanted to play Qxc7. But just the thought that passed through my mind, and the time scrambled. Qc7 I thought Qd5 Qf4 Ng3, I can’t go h5, because Qd8, Qh5, so I just played d1 = Q and then I realized if I just stay there, there is nothing bad. Even after h5, if he takes the pawn, it's fine.
SS: These were some crazy games Gukesh that you played. A lot of ups and downs, lot of topsy-turvy things, but I think it was a very fighting event for you.
GD: Clearly the result shows that! Four wins, four losses, two draws.
SS: Are you happy in general with this overall event?
GD: Can't say happy, but there are some things to be happy about, some things to be really unhappy about. One thing is starting so badly and finishing so well. In the final round, I had fair chances to win. Starting with two losses in a tournament like this, it's not great. Another thing to be happy about is, in general, when I am in good form, like everything just goes very smoothly, like in Candidates, Olympiad, when I am in my best form, things just happen naturally. But sometimes, in tournaments when I am not feeling at my best, it goes shakily. In this tournament, clearly I was not nowhere close to my best. You don't really control your form. It just comes and goes. One thing about Magnus is that even when he is in bad form, he finishes second or third maximum. So one thing that I can be happy about is, even though I was playing pretty badly, to be honest, I still had chances to win. I guess the thing to be unhappy about is simply that in some games, I was just misevaluating. For example, in many games, pretty much all the games, there were one or two big moments. But okay. That's a chess weakness. It's nice that we could notice it, because I can just work on that. Some things to be happy about, some things to be not happy about. Overall, I think it was a nice experience.
SS: For many people, this was the most exciting event that they followed. It was so much fun. So many things happening every single day. I think everyone had a gala time watching, following this event.
AM: Also because of the double round. You are playing with the same player twice which doesn't happen, which was so cool where you get to play two colors. What is your opinion about that?
GD: It doesn't happen. I don't remember any, except Candidates.
AM: Do you like it?
GD: Sometimes, I feel it's unfair. Like one player can only play against another player, one player has White, but it's nice that each player can play both White and Black, so there is no excuse.
AM: Also, when you were talking about the playing form, it was very interesting when you said you cannot control it. It just comes and goes. Do you think that the freestyle chess mattered to you in terms of your confidence levels? Did it get affected anywhere else in classical chess?
GD: For sure, it did to some extent, even though it's not classical chess, it's not standard chess. It's pretty much a different game. In classical chess, you prepare, you know the structure, and you know the ideas. In freestyle, it's tough for me to get adjusted to that randomness. It's still not pleasant to lose games, any format, any time control, any player; it's not pleasant to lose. And that did affect some rhythm probably after a while. But okay, it's a nice experience. And I think it's not just because of the freestyle, it's the platform, it just happens. You can't be at your best like 100%. So, it keeps happening. But one thing to practice is that even when you are at your best, you don't really need to think about anything. Things just happen naturally, like what happened in the Candidates or the Olympiad. It felt so easy. But here, when you are in bad form, it feels like you need to put more effort. Every single decision feels tougher than usual. And even in those kinds of moments, to have a decent tournament, it’s a nice sign.
AM: That's such deep insights, and really a lot to learn from with all that you said, Gukesh!
SS: And also, you shared something on your Instagram, Gukesh, you always thank the people in your journey. In the recent post, you shared that you had a very good time eating the food from this restaurant called Spisoh. Was the Indian food very good that you got there?
GD: Yeah. Even in 2023, we used to have it there every day. This time, it was nice that they became the partners of the food. After every game, when going back to the hotel, we would pick up dinner, and the food is just amazing. I used to order this special dish I like from the restaurant. After the tournament, they decided to name it after me. It was very nice of them!
SS: Really? What’s the name of the dish?
GD: I don’t remember. Dad used to order it. It was something mutton. It was super tasty. I was having it pretty much all the nights. It was super nice of them. They were also very nice. On some days, when the games got late, they would come to the hotel and take the orders.
SS: That's so beautiful! Such support is very nice! You can focus more on the event. And now, where can we see you next, Gukesh? What are the next couple of events that are planned?
GD: Next, I will be playing the Grand Chess Tour (SuperUnited Rapid & Blitz Croatia: June 30 - July 7, 2025 in Zagreb, Croatia).
AM: It's Magnus again!
GD: Yeah, he is there again!
SS: Kasparov tweeted, saying we will have stronger tables there!
SS: Will you come to Las Vegas for the Freestyle?
GD: That is yet to be decided. Then I will be playing the Saint Louis Rapid & Blitz (August 9-16, 2025) and the Sinquefield Cup (August 16-29, 2025).
SS: Amazing! Well, Gukesh, you have a packed schedule ahead of you.
AM: Then he will also play in the India vs USA, Sagar.
SS: Gukesh, we are teammates (gestures a high five). I hope to not let you down and not let the Indian team down. So, I will prepare a bit. Maybe after this London trip, we will get more serious.
GD: Amruta, are you also coming to that?
AM: Yes, I am coming there for sure. Sagar will be a player, and then to cheer him up, I am very excited as well! But he will need some tips, scolding from you for being disciplined. That's very required.
GD: I don't think I am the right person. (laughs)
SS: We will figure it out, Amruta. I think Vishnu also volunteered, by the way. He said he can train me. He came on a live stream and said, "Oh, your match is coming up. I can train."
AM: Then we are going to Chennai for some time!
GD: You are coming to Chennai just to train?
SS: I mean whatever Vishnu says! I will ask later if he can guide me. We will see. But thank you, Gukesh, for finding time. You arrived from Norway yesterday. You had a busy day. You found time today morning.
AM: He has not even slept well. So it's a big thing to come here and to give interviews.
GD: I slept very well last night! (Smiles)
SS: But thank you for doing this.
GD: Yeah, no problem!
Check out the full interview here:
